General > Discussion

Critical Hits/Coup De Grace/Melee Damage Modifiers

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DoomWarrior:

--- Quote from: Winter on January 05, 2008, 02:57:41 pm ---Really, though, my comment about JA2 was about critical hits more than coup-de-grace.

--- End quote ---

hm ja2 has also "cirical hits", where you can lose wisdom if you hit the targets head, Dexterity or Strength if you hit the body or Agility if you hit the legs.

Winter:

--- Quote from: DoomWarrior on January 05, 2008, 05:06:53 pm ---hm ja2 has also "cirical hits", where you can lose wisdom if you hit the targets head, Dexterity or Strength if you hit the body or Agility if you hit the legs.

--- End quote ---

That doesn't do any extra damage, though, it just reduces stats in addition to damage. Which is something I wouldn't mind seeing in UFO:AI.

Regards,
Winter

Surrealistik:

--- Quote ---That doesn't do any extra damage, though, it just reduces stats in addition to damage. Which is something I wouldn't mind seeing in UFO:AI.
--- End quote ---

Okay. So you wouldn't mind seeing stat damage being randomly dealt on a successful impact (which in reality would apply all of the time as long as non-trivial damage were dealt), but you DO mind extra health damage? That's silly. So much for realism, and one of your chief arguments (which was notably lacking in the first place).


--- Quote ---Not really applicable, because that feature (more sensibly) only works with knives, and its only purpose in JA2 is to make knives less totally useless compared to firearms.
--- End quote ---

More sensibly? So tell me, what is more sensible about a knife dealing extra damage at point blank range against an oblivious target and not a pistol or heavier weapon discharged into the back of someone's head? Is it because the knife is otherwise useless, and thus there is a basis in gameplay as opposed to realism (because there is certainly no justification on behalf of the latter)? That said, I find it rather ironic that someone like you would ever find something even remotely inconsistant with 'realism' (nevermind something as vastly divorced as this) that has a gameplay related justification to be 'more sensible'. Hypocrisy always reigns where expedient.

By contrast, the coup-de-grace as I have proposed it is a feature primarily meant to reward stealth, and flanking tactics (all of which are highly desirable behaviours) in a realistic fashion, not the use of melee weapons (which would be silly). This implimentation of the coup-de-grace has a two fold basis therefore; one in gameplay, and one in reality.

DoomWarrior:

--- Quote from: Surrealistik on January 05, 2008, 10:23:06 pm ---That's silly. So much for realism, and one of your chief arguments (which was notably lacking in the first place).

--- End quote ---

could you please strip down your anger...
There is no need to be affronted.

OrderlyChaos:
I really like these ideas. Though I do recognize that critical hits do add additional randomness, it is subject to a signifigant degree of player control as Sur says and the mechanism can definitely be exploited by a crafty player. I don't understand why the concept of the critical hit is thought to be unrealistic (sorry Winter); you get hit in the head with a bullet and you're going to suffer all the more for it, right? The double damage (after armour applies) represents that. The factoring of soldier skills and the various fire modes, and weapon/ammo types into the critical probability also fairly represent realistic modifiers that might affect your chance of landing that headshot for better or worse. It just makes sense, and adds interesting new tactical depth to the game. Not only do you have to factor in accuracy, damage output and TU cost, but critical probability modifiers as well.

As for the coup-de-grace that's brilliant. Does it encourage stealth? Yes. You can't exploit the feature if you get detected before you manage to utilize it. Does it encourage flanking? Yes, as flanking arises from stealth. Is this a good thing gameplay wise? Unless stealth and flanking, two tactically desirable behaviours are considered bad things, then most certainly. Is it realistic? Definitely. If someone shoots you in the back of the head, execution style, because you hadn't the knowledge of his presence to pose resistance, you are going down. Alternatively if someone decapitates you with a Kerrblade while you're similarily oblivious, it's good game.

The melee damage modifiers are a no brainer. No need to elaborate on it.

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