General > Discussion

"New" Weapon stats (2.2 - 2.3)

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BTAxis:
That has been suggested, but I don't really like that model. Instead, I suggested that armour would induce a TU penalty - none for light armour, some for medium armour and a lot for heavy armour. That makes armour competitive - you trade speed for protection. It's also simpler (read: better), but it doesn't prevent rookies from using heavy weaponry.

This feature isn't implemented, and it won't be in 2.2.

Kaerius:
Honestly, I'd consider at least making the plasma pistol one-handed, that'd make it valid as a sidearm.

As for the mini-shottie and smg... I don't know really, they're so pathetic now that armour works, I'd be tempted to drop them completely, or up the damage. There are 5.56NATO(.223) submachineguns now(in reality), some bigger calibre ones in the future doesn't seem too far-fetched. Make it inaccurate instead as the recoil makes it jump around. It already costs quite a few TUs to use.

Tried playing with only particle rifles and cannons today, hardly an upgrade now that they don't completely ignore armour anymore. The particle rifle does have a bit of merit though, as a sort of cross between the sniper rifle and bolt rifle, though slower to fire...

Honestly at the moment, you're best off sticking to the good old sniper rifle, bolt rifle and the odd flamethrower, other weapons have very little merit except for niche rolls that you rarely need. A big part of that is how horribly inflated the TU costs for higher tech weapons have become lately. You'd think some WH40K fanatic went through them with the "You shouldn't be able to move and fire in the same turn" mentality.

BTAxis:
Yeah, that's the philosophy behind most of the heavy weapons, including the human ones (though as stated I didn't really do much about those yet). But I'm kind of assuming that eventually, soldiers are going to get better TUs than 40 tops in the singleplayer game, as a result of their increasing stats. However, the fire-or-move thing should only go for the heavier fire modes. Snap shots should be less costly.

Kaerius:
Note that max in a normal game is currently 42TUs, and I think the total max is 46(possibly reachable in a very easy game). Currently stats do not go up on soldiers, so you're stuck with the stats they start with(perhaps something for a bug report).

Higher tech weapons are still really really silly in their damage/TU ratio. Although worst is undoubtedly the lasers. Mind you I thought the heavy laser was kinda crap when it was 60 damage for 5 TU and 100 damage for 7 TU, but you couldn't choose reaction fire firemode then(and it doesn't seem to work most of the time now either). 60 damage for 17 TU and 100 for 21 is just ridiculous, and don't even talk about the laser pistol...

When snapshots "should be less costly" why does it cost 19 TU the particle beam cannon? Sure it's a cannon, but that snapshot isn't going to take down any alien in one hit unless you're playing on very easy, and it's not all that accurate either.

Let's not talk about hard+... needed 6 frag grenades to take down a single alien in the first mission on hard...

BTAxis:
Let's get something straight here first, you are *not* supposed to take down an alien in one hit, at least on normal difficulty. Or an enemy soldier in MP. That's exactly the thing I'm trying to get rid of, because I really hated that in MP in the older versions. I mean, why even bother putting on armour at all if the weapons are just going to overpower it anyway? (edit: excepting the charged blast and similarly high-powered weapons, of course. But not with midrange weapons.)

With that out of the way, I think we can assert that the alien weapons and the lasers are too weak. I'll have to see about that. I don't want to lower the TU costs too much, though. Low TU cost should really be reserved for secondary weapons. Also, the TUs in singleplayer should increase - once that is implemented. Right now we don't have anything of the sort.

Six frag grenades for one alien is too many, agreed (I don't actually know what bonuses the aliens get on the various difficulties). I drastically lowered the grenade weapons because they were so overpowered before (300+ damage for a plasma grenade, ensuring a kill every time). They're at 110 and 150 now, so they SHOULD still kill a soldier in two hits if you aim well. But as they're supposed to be explosives they'll often do less than that. The trouble is that with values around 200, they become insta-kill weapons again, and as I said before, that's something I want to avoid. The best way would be to change the damage falloff with distance, but that's not possible unless you change it in the code.

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