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Author Topic: after a couple of hours play on trunk rel 10839  (Read 3921 times)

Offline garthos

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after a couple of hours play on trunk rel 10839
« on: August 16, 2007, 08:50:02 am »
Firstly, just wanted to say I'm in awe with what you have been doing here.
I've played 2.1. So many more features in 2.2, awesome. 

Thought I would share some points of interest while playing the first few hours on trunk release 10890.

1) When building a hospital the hospital icon in the menu turns green but you are unable to select it. Maybe it should remain grey until built or a message saying under construction.

2) Base Summary sections facilities, construction and research values are messy to read. Maybe should be tabbed into columns like the other sections.

3) Base Summary personnel looks like its missing personnel available i.e 3/8 maybe its on the todo.

4) Possibly my configuration but the screen isn't centered correctly, sits to the left when desktop sits perfectly.

5) Game Settings, holding cursor over one popup menu acitivate another popup menu i.e when trying to select an option for HUD Design the Language options appear. Works ok though.

6) 3D Geoscape - base icon white not yellow. Hard to see with white countries names.

7) When beginning maybe a popup should remind you that are not researching for newbees. I do remember seeing a popup on earlier version during mid game.

8)  After playing ver 2.1 these are my critical thoughts on game play. To easy. I was able to play on normal difficulty with no challenge, I didnt feel the fear that I got from XCOM: terror of the deep. I'm playing expert now and fear this will prove no better. I think the majority of people are likely to start the game on Normal difficulty and possibly not play another game (As they may spend 60+ hours on the first one). Most people once started wont want to start again to beef up the level in fear of starting over again. I think its very important to get this level balanced to provide the best atmosphere possible. A player that gets wiped out on normal difficulty can either load a save game or repeat the battle, everything is in his favour. When a difficulty level is to easy other strategy aspects of the game become nullified for example budgeting of personnel, cash and expansion. This is a strategy game.
In fairness I feel this way with most games not only ufoai.
Some ideas:
* I loved the excessive damage area of the alien grenades in XCOM terror in the deep. This created an awe for the alien technology and created that fear atmosphere.Please beefup the alien weapons.
* Create more of a disadvantage at the beginning for being so far behind in technology. Balance it so most first time players are losing more recruits than they gaining until armour or alien technology has been utilized.
* I like the repeat battle option but I I see a disadvantage that players might use it excessively at the beginning of the game not wanting to take any losses. This can unbalance the number of battles a player has fought vs the story unfolding. For example if a player has fought 20+ intercept battles using the repeat battle before he triggers an alien base attack. He may retire before the story unfolds. It also goads the player to complete the missions with absolute minimal casualties which not only means no pressure is applied to all the strategy elements cash, troop recruitment etc but also weakens the experience of the battles due to loss of fear & atmosphere.
* I would like to see a player getting through the level and be happy to have survied with 3 players and not wanting to repeat the battle incase of doing worse, and therefore triggering the management elements of the game as the player takes the casualties.
* Maybe offering repeat battle only 0 to 2 players have survived. I think u should be encouraging losses. AI is up against the save game anyway if it gets to tough for the player.
* I Didn't notice a flee option. This could be deployed as a strategic tool for the player with restricted resources. Also lets them take a crack at a mission that they may have been reluctant in trying.

Anyway, Im enjoying the good work. Let me know if this is helpful as I can continue to document what I find as I play through the trunk version.

Cheers
Garthos

 
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 06:40:58 am by garthos »

Offline Mattn

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Re: after a couple of hours play on trunk rel 10890
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2007, 09:01:55 am »
Quote
Anyway, Im enjoying the good work. Let me know if this is helpful as I can continue to document what I find as I play through the trunk version.

Yes, this sort of feedback is exactly what we need. Please also make sure, that you fill a feature request on our tracker. I can't promise anything at the current stage about balancing - but you are definitly right. The first step is to bring the needed feature completeness to 2.2 - then fixing bugs - then balancing.

About the retry option.... Hm. The gamers are already complaining about the none-existent feature to save in mid-mission (which will not be there at any time in any official binary - to just stop any upcoming discussion here ;-) ) - taken them the retry option isn't a good idea imo. But maybe it would be cool for the highest difficulty level. Might be an extra challenge. But this has to be discussed, too.

your alignment on the desktop is about none fullscreen mode, isn't it? Try the cvars vid_xpos and vid_ypos - they are both zero by default, thus the ufoai window is placed to the topleft edge of your desktop


Offline garthos

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Re: after a couple of hours play on trunk rel 10890
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2007, 03:34:03 am »
Shame about the savegame as I see the dilema if people are asking for more. I've always been and advocate that savegames can impact negatively to a strategy game. Chess wouldn't be the same if you load a save game each time you lost a piece. In "my perfect world" I would like to see an auto savegame at the beginning of the month and or after a battle without the user getting to decide. This way the player is more likely to carry the casualties during a month as he will be more reluctant to lose a few hours gameplay reverting to a save game. Although I guess this can be already implemented by a disciplined player. But the repeat battle option would have to remain. It certainly plays an important function. I thought I may have detected that ufoai may have felt this way to a degree for not implementing the savegame during battle ??.
Oh well, im one for being supportive of no savegame feature in the battle scenes, I think this is a good call and hope it remains this way.

I've looked at the tracker. I know you probably have this explained through the different websites (wiki,forum,source). But I was reluctant to add to this directly as I didnt understand how you processed these from good ideas, bad ideas, maybe ideas. I understand 2.2 is feature packed so the emphasis is on debugging & testing and completing the incomplete parts. So how are you processing non bug tracker suggestions. I think I saw 2.3 todo list. But this seemed more focused on keeping momentum up when 2.2 completes. Please explain ? Also hows does the person thats its assigned to fit in? Do they implement the changes and record it in changelog or responsible for researching whether its a good/bad idea and its written into a future todo list or has that process already taken place before assigning it ?
Can a modification be made without being written into the todo list first? What is your process of deciding whats a good idea.
Is the todo list the definitive list or only a list where the community can contribute ?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 04:28:29 am by garthos »

Offline Mattn

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Re: after a couple of hours play on trunk rel 10839
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2007, 08:57:07 am »
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I think this is a good call and hope it remains this way.

definitely

Quote
Is the todo list the definitive list or only a list where the community can contribute ?

The todo list for 2.2 is a definitely list, but if we can't achieve some of the goal, they might be postponed to 2.3. This list is mainly maintained by the developers involved in this project. If you want a feature, open a feature request tracker - but keep in mind, that the entries on the normal 2.2 todo list have a lot higher priority. And of course the bugs on the tracker has higher priority, too. So the safest way to get a new feature into the game, is to produce a patch and submit it to the patch tracker. If the feature is reasonable and the patch hits the coding guidelines and so on, it will be commited to current trunk. Normally it's me who commit those patches to trunk.

Offline Zenerka

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Re: after a couple of hours play on trunk rel 10890
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2007, 10:12:14 am »
Shame about the savegame as I see the dilema if people are asking for more. I've always been and advocate that savegames can impact negatively to a strategy game. Chess wouldn't be the same if you load a save game each time you lost a piece. In "my perfect world" I would like to see an auto savegame at the beginning of the month and or after a battle without the user getting to decide.
You know, the more you argue about that, the more I am willing to implement this. As an option, of course, but this would be definitely THE challenge.
've looked at the tracker. I know you probably have this explained through the different websites (wiki,forum,source). But I was reluctant to add to this directly as I didnt understand how you processed these from good ideas, bad ideas, maybe ideas.
Ideas should be discussed on forum. Feature requests, bugs and patches should be submitted to sourceforge tracker. When community (that is you, and you, and you, who read this) discussed some ideas here and they are nice, usually some of the devs discuss them and put them somewhere to the TODO list.
I understand 2.2 is feature packed so the emphasis is on debugging & testing and completing the incomplete parts. So how are you processing non bug tracker suggestions. I think I saw 2.3 todo list. But this seemed more focused on keeping momentum up when 2.2 completes. Please explain ?
Non-bug tracker suggestions means things suggested on forum? If they are bugs, we are trying to fix them. If they are features/ideas, we expect good discussion about them. Eventually they will land on TODO or feature request tracker, as explained before. About TODO lists, the closer we are to 2.2 release, the more TODO/2.3 will grow.
Also hows does the person thats its assigned to fit in? Do they implement the changes and record it in changelog or responsible for researching whether its a good/bad idea and its written into a future todo list or has that process already taken place before assigning it ?
No assigned persons here. If we would have 10 or 15 coders, we could divide the work that has to be done to avoid double work. But basicaly we have four coders, including me. The work is more like "okay, I have the mood to do X today, and I think I know how to do this". The detailed record of changes introduced by particular developers is automaticaly made by SVN system, for example take a look at http://cia.vc/stats/project/ufoai which is the "reportbot" about recent commits. When thing is complete and important, it goes into changelog (that means we are not putting into changelog minor fixes/changes).
Can a modification be made without being written into the todo list first? What is your process of deciding whats a good idea. Is the todo list the definitive list or only a list where the community can contribute ?
Every day modifications are being made without being written to the TODO list. TODO is more like "for developers by developers". TODO is only to organize things a bit and to enlighten us what else should be done, how important are particular topics, and to note concerns, ideas, implementation proposals for further discussing. Last but not least, TODO is never definitive. But particular TODO list has End Of Life (EOL). EOL for TODO/2.2 will become with so called "feature freeze" some weeks before releasing UFO:AI 2.2.0. Such EOL means no new features can be added to this TODO list.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 11:14:26 am by Zenerka »

Offline garthos

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Re: after a couple of hours play on trunk rel 10839
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2007, 05:33:03 am »
Okay cool, thanks for the clarification.

Quote
You know, the more you argue about that, the more I am willing to implement this. As an option, of course, but this would be definitely THE challenge.

I shall fight on for these changes then, thanks  ;D ,I thought of name for this option. "Enhanced AI". In a roundabout way it achieves this.

Oh one last thing, I would have been interested in reading on your website how this project came about, the guys involvement in previous projects and maybe more details regarding the quake engine. Not sure if this was sourced for its suitability or because of your experience with it.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 05:49:02 am by garthos »