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Author Topic: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!  (Read 80395 times)

Offline Telok

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Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!
« Reply #105 on: July 03, 2010, 09:47:19 am »

*sigh* Not these "If you don't like it STFU or GTFO" people again... In an open source project no less...

Oh no no no. That was not meant that way at all. I'm dreadfully sorry if it came across as such. You see I've been away for a year or so and I came back to find people still whining about the storyline without trying to improve on it.

For example, with the complaint about a galactic civilization being able to easily crush a single planet, it may not be able to easily muster or coordinate the forces needed to do so. If you had FTL communications, large scale transportation for troops and matereals over hunderds of light-years, and a standing military then crushing one little planet is easy. If it lacks FTL communications then the information about Earth and humans will only spread at the speed of the ships carrying the news. If the ships have a limit of twenty light-years per jump and a fuel supply limited to three or four jumps that will slow down the spread of information as well. A well endowed courier system could speed information flow up significantly, if the civilization needed one. If they have not previously needed a courier system then the resources to set one up have probably beed used elsewhere. And if information is taking months to reach a major population and resource center then large numbers of troops and arms can take longer to reach the conflict.

One major difference between humans and the aliens that that the alien civilization is cooperative as opposed to our competitive civilization. With our competition we keep trying to improve things in order to advance (or at least to not lose and die) within our society. At our most competitive we have wars, during these times we are at our most innovative as a society because the pressure to improve and beat the competition is the most immediate and intense. The cooperative civilization does not have this internal pressure to change or improve. Without an external threat there may be no stimulus for innovation or change. So a cooperative alien civilization could plausably exist without significant technological or social change for thousands of years.

Offline Hertzila

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Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!
« Reply #106 on: July 03, 2010, 04:45:20 pm »
Oh no no no. That was not meant that way at all. I'm dreadfully sorry if it came across as such. You see I've been away for a year or so and I came back to find people still whining about the storyline without trying to improve on it.

Oh, sorry then. What you said
This is somebody else's sandbox, you are a guest here. Please refrain from pissing on the toys.
here was pretty much what most people say when they mean "STFU or GTFO", so I jumped into the wrong conclusion  :-[.

For example, with the complaint about a galactic civilization being able to easily crush a single planet, it may not be able to easily muster or coordinate the forces needed to do so. If you had FTL communications, large scale transportation for troops and matereals over hunderds of light-years, and a standing military then crushing one little planet is easy. If it lacks FTL communications then the information about Earth and humans will only spread at the speed of the ships carrying the news. If the ships have a limit of twenty light-years per jump and a fuel supply limited to three or four jumps that will slow down the spread of information as well. A well endowed courier system could speed information flow up significantly, if the civilization needed one. If they have not previously needed a courier system then the resources to set one up have probably beed used elsewhere. And if information is taking months to reach a major population and resource center then large numbers of troops and arms can take longer to reach the conflict.

IIUC the aliens move their whole spacecraft fleet and the GIGANTIC deep space station (which could call Death Star as tiny, puny golf ball), which had their whole population, together. So it realistically could mount the most insane of assaults on us. And still Earth will somehow win against that.
The whole problem is simply the scale and impropability of it. (Please don't start any arguments against that latter part of this counter-point, as that will quickly degenerate into a 'yes-no' fight.)

One major difference between humans and the aliens that that the alien civilization is cooperative as opposed to our competitive civilization. With our competition we keep trying to improve things in order to advance (or at least to not lose and die) within our society. At our most competitive we have wars, during these times we are at our most innovative as a society because the pressure to improve and beat the competition is the most immediate and intense. The cooperative civilization does not have this internal pressure to change or improve. Without an external threat there may be no stimulus for innovation or change. So a cooperative alien civilization could plausably exist without significant technological or social change for thousands of years.

Point taken. The XVI seems rather aggressive but maybe, thanks to the lack of internal wars, all the research was channelled much more into efficient resource gathering rather than into well-designed, effective tactics, strategies and weapons of war.

Offline DiDiT

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Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!
« Reply #107 on: July 03, 2010, 06:56:26 pm »
IIUC the aliens move their whole spacecraft fleet and the GIGANTIC deep space station (which could call Death Star as tiny, puny golf ball), which had their whole population, together.

I thought they were using FTL Tech or some sort of portal to travel here from their homeworld.

actually, Come to think of it... A alien home-world('s) would open up a whole new bunch of ideas... Like managing attack bases on the alien home-world('s) while still defending the earth.

Offline NicAdi

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Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!
« Reply #108 on: July 03, 2010, 07:48:11 pm »
I don't think that the current plotline is bad in any way, it's just needs polishing and details. It really is just an outline in the current form and needs to be fleshed out.

If you wish to contribute then please do so.

This is somebody else's sandbox, you are a guest here. Please refrain from pissing on the toys.
Wow... OK, let me first thank you for the warm (almost burning) welcome. Second, let me inform you I have reported your post to mods; see how they interpret that last line... :) And last but not least, let me make one thing perfectly clear: I will neither "STFU", nor "GTFO" for your convenience -- or anybody else's, for that matter. Deal with it !

Now, to get back to business. I still view this plot line as a variation on the Borg Collective theme; thus, it is bound to raise some of the same issues...
I presume you have read the wiki but a couple of things I think I could answer based on the research texts.
Yes, but only in part. There's already a lot to read through, and it will take some time for me to catch up. That's another reason why I wasn't too keen on "bombarding" the Forum with ideas; I'd rather spend some more time getting familiar with the storyline, as it is now -- and post questions whenever I feel something doesn't quite add up. Nevertheless, it is an ongoing process, I can assure you. :)
The immuno-response issue is at least one key reason for the re-engineering of XVI for different species. It has to use and abuse everything to stand a chance against it. And especially at the early infection, when there isn't much of it, it's logical to assume it's at its most vulnureable state.
The critical mass thing might be to avoid tipping the host off that he/she is infected. If the XVI would start to infect the central nervous system too early the host might seek medical attention rather quickly.
I agree with what you're saying about the agent's need for re-engineering itself to fit the biological particularities of each and every species it intends to use as hosts -- makes sense. One immediate consequence of this set-up is that a "strain" developed for a certain species will *not* be directly compatible with another species. This could prove useful in the story as a plot device...
The "critical mass" is a requirement for the agent to be able to overcome the host's own consciousness and take over. The idea is it surely needs to multiply itself to a certain level, *BEFORE* it becomes possible to assume psionic control. My questions were specifically concerned with this time interval -- between initial infection and the moment the agent assumes full control over host.
Other than these, you've pretty much restated my assumptions/available information (the cyan-coloured text was meant as background/supplementary information; questions are in white), but not really answered any of the questions... ;)
/*This is partly speculation based on my own logic*/ Based on the level it infects the brain I don't think there is any mind residing under the XVI. It basically turns the brain into a processor/HDD for the hivemind with memories and such intact (the one guy who was infected from PHALANX was evidently behaving fairly normally, otherwise he would have been catched earlier). It does seem lossy though, since it doesn't get sentience until a few hosts get near each other and the hivemind gets enough power despite the fact that the XVI infects sentient beings.
So, in essence, you don't think the host's own consciousness actually survives; in other words, even if the person infected would be -- somehow -- cured, he or she would be pretty much a vegetable... Correct? If so, then it implies that some or all of the cognitive processes that give rise to consciousness are irreversibly impaired. This seem to be in conflict with your next statement, which says that "memories and such" are left intact. Of course, this problem becomes more of a philosophical conundrum, since it points us to ask what exactly is it that makes us who we are... ;) If someone would rush it and answer "well, surely the experiences we had lived through !", then that would most definitely translate into "memories"...
Sorry for the late response and welcome to the forums!
Yup, thanks. Well, it's the time of vacations now, so delays are understandable... ;) I'm actually looking forward to my own ! :D


Offline H-Hour

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Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!
« Reply #109 on: July 03, 2010, 08:24:08 pm »
Welcome to the forums NicAdi. Please see this thread about making suggestions.

Offline Hertzila

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Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!
« Reply #110 on: July 03, 2010, 09:50:50 pm »
Wow... OK, let me first thank you for the warm (almost burning) welcome. Second, let me inform you I have reported your post to mods; see how they interpret that last line... :) And last but not least, let me make one thing perfectly clear: I will neither "STFU", nor "GTFO" for your convenience -- or anybody else's, for that matter. Deal with it !

We established on the top of this page that he seemed to write a bit too agressively in his post, so he accidently portrayed himself as a "STFU or GTFO" guy, which was not intentional.

I agree with what you're saying about the agent's need for re-engineering itself to fit the biological particularities of each and every species it intends to use as hosts -- makes sense. One immediate consequence of this set-up is that a "strain" developed for a certain species will *not* be directly compatible with another species. This could prove useful in the story as a plot device...
The "critical mass" is a requirement for the agent to be able to overcome the host's own consciousness and take over. The idea is it surely needs to multiply itself to a certain level, *BEFORE* it becomes possible to assume psionic control. My questions were specifically concerned with this time interval -- between initial infection and the moment the agent assumes full control over host.
Other than these, you've pretty much restated my assumptions/available information (the cyan-coloured text was meant as background/supplementary information; questions are in white), but not really answered any of the questions... ;)

One thing I tried to say was that maybe part of the re-engineering process is giving the XVI ways to evade, bypass and fight the immune system.

So, in essence, you don't think the host's own consciousness actually survives; in other words, even if the person infected would be -- somehow -- cured, he or she would be pretty much a vegetable... Correct? If so, then it implies that some or all of the cognitive processes that give rise to consciousness are irreversibly impaired. This seem to be in conflict with your next statement, which says that "memories and such" are left intact. Of course, this problem becomes more of a philosophical conundrum, since it points us to ask what exactly is it that makes us who we are... ;) If someone would rush it and answer "well, surely the experiences we had lived through !", then that would most definitely translate into "memories"...

What I was trying to say is that when the XVI infects a brain, it's reduced to a mere computer working for the hivemind (analogue: a computer infected with a virus, so it is under control of a criminal). But if and when you cure the person and as such his brain, his memories and capability for conciousness are not hampered; at most he will be very disoriented and has very random bits of the hivemind's memories in his brain (you remove the virus and nothing has really happened to your computer; at most some clues are left about the criminal). The more negative way this might happen that upon removal the brain is left into a state when there isn't actually anything there. The person won't remember literally anything from normal memories to abilities like language (the removed virus managed to format or corrupt all your files). But to the brain nothing has happened, the "hardware" is not damaged and the person will not turn into a vegetable, unless of course the cure causes brain damage (your HDD and processor are still working even after the virus, unless the removal included breaking them).
And as in my original post, most of this is speculation mixed in with my logic.

Or Winter can go the (IMO less logical but inefficient as required) "fate worse than death" way, where the mind is either left completely under control of the XVI when an infection happens (likely the person won't even actually realise this) or the mind is trapped helpless in the brain, not under control of his body and without the capability to scream from the top of his lungs like he surely would like to do (pretty much akin to the Yeerk control mechanism in Animophs, except that in cellular level; or headcrabs, without the whole "rotting zombie" thing).

Appropriate wikipedia and tvtrope links coming up later.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2010, 01:38:42 am by Hertzila »

Offline NicAdi

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Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!
« Reply #111 on: July 05, 2010, 02:52:12 pm »
Welcome to the forums NicAdi. Please see this thread about making suggestions.
Thank you. :) I already read that; however, at this point in time, I am neither interested, nor compelled to make any suggestions -- the main reason being that, based on the discussions I've witnessed thus far, it strikes me as a futile activity. Much like the XVI entity, I'm not commiting resources (mainly time), unless I can get something of value out of it. ;)

I am simply asking questions about what I perceive as the current storyline's "weak points" -- and I haven't even got to the "big ones" yet. Whether you (as in "you", the developers/story-tellers) would bother to take them into account or not, is entirely your decision; I have no strong expectations either way...

We established on the top of this page that he seemed to write a bit too agressively in his post, so he accidently portrayed himself as a "STFU or GTFO" guy, which was not intentional.
"We"?! I'm sorry, but there's no "we" on this matter; YOU chose to buy into his (rather feeble) attempt of an explanation, I did not... I could go through the reasoning process which lead me to give the response I did, but I'd rather spend my time here talking about the game. ;) Besides, I consider the matter closed and have no further wish of discussing it.

Therefore, shall we go back to the game? :)

One thing I tried to say was that maybe part of the re-engineering process is giving the XVI ways to evade, bypass and fight the immune system.
Oh, yes, I understood that, and I do agree -- it is a good starting point. Certainly knowing how the immune system of a target species works (an understanding that can be conceivably obtained by mapping that species' genome, and/or by conducting tissue sample experiments in the lab) could highlight its weaknesses and prompt ways of efficiently evading/disabling/fighting it by simply exploiting those weaknesses. Now, completely disabling or putting up a fight with the immune system would be a poor idea; the former will literally "open the door" to other, more local, attackers (resulting in the host becoming ill, with possible fatal outcome -- see AIDS); the latter will undoubtedly leave/generate signs that will both prompt the host that "something's not right" (i.e. illness symptoms), and offer tangible, medical proof of infection. Neither of those are desired effects for the agent; thus, the first option of evading the host's immune system is the only viable one.
However, there are some downsides to this approach. A major one would be that the infectious agent, in its re-engineered state to fit the human physiology, will become much less of an indescifrable mystery. The reason is simple: in order to live/interact within a human host (not to mention "fool" the immune system into seeing it as a "legit" cell), it will need to replicate certain cellular structures and behaviours. In essence, it *MUST* become something of a less "alien" and more "local" nature. Such structures and behaviours will be much easier identified and understood (perhaps even countered) by a well-trained immunologist/molecular biologist... In short, making it work within a human body will also make it less cryptic. Of course, this fact alone does not mean the infection will also be easily cured; just better understood.
What I was trying to say is that when the XVI infects a brain, it's reduced to a mere computer working for the hivemind (analogue: a computer infected with a virus, so it is under control of a criminal). But if and when you cure the person and as such his brain, his memories and capability for conciousness are not hampered; at most he will be very disoriented and has very random bits of the hivemind's memories in his brain (you remove the virus and nothing has really happened to your computer; at most some clues are left about the criminal). The more negative way this might happen that upon removal the brain is left into a state when there isn't actually anything there. The person won't remember literally anything from normal memories to abilities like language (the removed virus managed to format or corrupt all your files). But to the brain nothing has happened, the "hardware" is not damaged and the person will not turn into a vegetable, unless of course the cure causes brain damage (your HDD and processor are still working even after the virus, unless the removal included breaking them).
And as in my original post, most of this is speculation mixed in with my logic.
Hmm... There is nothing in the UFOPaedia articles I've read thus far, that says anything about the nervous system of the host becoming infected with the agent. In fact, aside from a vague hint in the Storyline » A New Twist, about some "infected tissues", there is no clear statement about what type of tissues, aside from the blood, this agent may permeate. Hence the reason why I raised it as a question...
Whilst I understand what you mean, I must urge you to be very careful with that brain-computer analogy; the human brain is *NOTHING* like what we understand now through the term "computer". It is, in fact, completely different from both the morphological and functional standpoints. The human brain does not have separately-identifiable components that perform only data processing, memorization, or input-output functions; also, the human mind does not function by "running programs"... I also wish to point out that, unlike computers, for the human brain (or any other brain, for that matter), there's a very strong connection between its structure and its function. Alter one, and there will be observable/measurable changes to the other... Furthermore, what you're describing as a "computer virus" is most likely another type of malware, such as a hijacker (diverting the compromised system's resources to serve other purposes than "officially" intended), or backdoor (allowing unauthorized access to the compromised system, either locally or remotely).

I appreciate your responses, and do not wish to come across as being rude: but I was looking for the *OFFICIAL* angle to my questions. As I continue with reading through the various UFOPaedia articles, I do find clues which may be used to fashion the answers I seek; unfortunately, sometimes these clues seem to contradict each-other, or are too vague to be of any use...

There are also other things that caught my eye -- some of which quite bothersome; so here are a few further questions:
  • All the alien species currently in the game are humanoid in appearance, and also seem to share some fundamental biological structures, both between themselves and with us (humans) -- such as the DNA and chromosomial structures. Does this imply the overall story is built upon the theoretical premise of Panspermia? If so, shouldn't more commonalities, at the cellular level, be shared both between the aliens, and us? If not so, then how are the structures cited as common explained?
  • The UFOPaedia article cited above (i.e. Storyline » A New Twist) makes reference to the infectious agent as both "a kind of single-cellular organism", and "a complex multi-celled organism". For obvious reasons, both statements cannot be true at the same time. So, which is which?!
  • The same article states that the infectious agent "acts and replicates exactly like one [a virus]". To my knowledge, a common virus replicates (correct term; NOT "reproduce") by injecting its genetic code into a "host cell", which subsequently becomes infected and starts manufacturing new virions, usually instead of performing its normal function (since its resources are limited and cannot be "hijacked" by the virus without creating a deficiency in normal operation). Since both its function and structure have been altered, the "infected cell" will behave quite differently than a "healthy cell" of the same kind. However, the article also states that the "infected tissues do not appear to suffer any negative effects -- or positive ones, for that matter". Isn't this a contradiction? How can these two statements be brought into agreement?
  • It is also stated that, although there are "several versions of [the agent], one for each species of alien, [...] they all share remarkable DNA similarities.". Whilst it is not made clear what exactly might be the extent of these "remarkable similarities", one can assume "remarkable" to be synonimous to "extensive", in context (i.e. one would not call a DNA similarity between two samples of different origins as being "remarkable", if it only stands for a small percentage; there won't be anything "remarkable" in that...). This in turn implies that the genetic material which accounts for the variations between species is rather reduced -- perhaps even to a quite small percentage of the whole (much like an errata attached to a volume publication). On the other hand, the descriptions for the encountered alien species portrays them as being hugely different from one another. Shouldn't the same degree of complexity which manifests between various alien hosts be reflected by the infectious agent's targeted strains as well? How can a "large variance" be FULLY mapped to a small one?!

Until next time, cheers ! ;)

Offline TrashMan

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Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!
« Reply #112 on: July 20, 2010, 12:39:56 pm »
The "galactic power can't crush Earth" thing can be solved by reducing the size of the alien empire.
It doesn't have to engulf whole galaxies to be a threat to Earth.

Furthermore, by spreading the aliens out more, or messing with their mode of travel, communications and such, you can make the invasion buildup far more believable.


All the issues with the storyline can be fixed, given some time and creativity.
But will they?

Offline NicAdi

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Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!
« Reply #113 on: July 20, 2010, 03:06:58 pm »
Hello, TrashMan !

I've been watching your posts closely - as well as your ongoing disputes with Winter regarding... erm... certain less-than-convincing aspects of his storyline. It's a pleasure to (finally) meet you. :)

Coming back to the topic at hand. If you have read my posts here thus far, you've seen that I have concentrated on raising questions about rather minor aspects, perhaps even unimportant - although I do have a huge problem with the current storyline. The reason for doing that is most of the large aspects concerning the storyline - such as the sheer size, strength, intelligence, resources etc. of the alien nemesis being depicted, and the overwhelming contrast they make against its rather puerile objectives, motivation and tactics it employs - have already been challenged, both by you and others. And yet, no measures were taken towards correcting any of them...

I agree with you, as "downplaying" the alien force will help fix a lot of issues, whilst still remaining menacing enough for us (humans) - i.e. a formidable, yet not invulnerable, foe. There were already suggested (although I can't remember exactly by whom and on which thread) a couple of possible variations of the overall plot:
  • Either downscale the time frame this infectious agent has existed, i.e. make it "fresh out of the labs", 2-3 years ago instead of 100,000 years, and just started spreading throughout our galaxy.
  • Or, make that it just suffered a terrible loss (for example, against a resistence alien army attempting to contain/exterminate it) and is now looking for an easy enough prey to help it quickly replenish its forces.
Both suggestions had the merit of making the "alien virus" a little bit more vulnerable, while still being, for us and our limited strength/knowledge/technology, quite the threat. Unfortunately, both suggestions were also *summarily* dismissed by Winter. :)

As I said, I have watched your continuous disputes with Winter/BTAxis for quite some time now. To be honest, I haven't seen any real interest at all in at least *acknowledging* there are some major issues with the storyline, let alone in trying to fix them. So, sadly, the answer to your question is: NO, they won't be fixed. :( Come to think of it, Winter has made it perfectly clear, and more than once, that: a) The storyline is absolutely perfect (I think the expression used was "rock-solid") and he's completely happy with it the way it is now, and b) Surely nobody expects him to remove his own ideas and put someone else's instead ! (a comment that, all by itself, says it all...:P)

Offline TrashMan

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Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!
« Reply #114 on: July 20, 2010, 04:05:12 pm »
Here's a though....let's say the alien mode of travel requires a certain setup-time. Maybe it's not as fast. Maybe their drive is slower the bigger the ship is (thus making bigger ships arrive later plausaible)?

Or they need to build a gate of some kind and the alien forces we encounter are just a scouting force?
Then the goal of the game would be to destroy the gate and stop an all-out invasion.

Again, a few possible solutions.


As far as the storyline is concerned....anything that can be modded is fixable. Text description of research, weapons and story can all be changed. If Winter doesn't want a better story, we can make one ourselves.
That's why I'm more concerned of the hard-coded, mechanical things that might be left out.

Offline NicAdi

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Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!
« Reply #115 on: July 21, 2010, 10:10:08 am »
Apparently, the site went belly up yesterday, as I was editing the post.
I never got the chance of completing the operation, so I'm posting it now.

Here's a though....let's say the alien mode of travel requires a certain setup-time. Maybe it's not as fast. Maybe their drive is slower the bigger the ship is (thus making bigger ships arrive later plausaible)?

Or they need to build a gate of some kind and the alien forces we encounter are just a scouting force?
Then the goal of the game would be to destroy the gate and stop an all-out invasion.

Again, a few possible solutions.
Yes, perhaps... But that still leaves the story struggling with some of its fundamental plot points - like the aliens' "need" to invade Earth... And it will also cause other changes to be considered in the storyline - like either making the XVI a lot younger (thus still expanding in a rather "virgin" Galaxy), or much, MUCH older than currently stated - in order to keep it consistent. Plus, I have to say this, I'm not very enthusiastic about throwing yet another "warp-gate" type thing in there, which a) has been done already many times, and b) brings its own assortment of issues. I know, I know... You've only suggested it as a mere possibility, not as a fully usable plot device, with all kinks worked out. :) I just pointed out how I believe it'll affect the storyline, and what I generally think of it, at a first glance.

Why are you so concerned with this aspect of the alien's travel/communication capabilities, anyway? Are you simply outlining it as one possible way of "tweaking" the story into more believable terms, or you have a much larger "scheme" in mind about it? :)

As far as the storyline is concerned....anything that can be modded is fixable. Text description of research, weapons and story can all be changed. If Winter doesn't want a better story, we can make one ourselves.
That's why I'm more concerned of the hard-coded, mechanical things that might be left out.
I know, and the thought of coming up with an alternate, fully original (well, in the sense of "disparate from the official storyline" - I don't delude myself thinking I could "hatch up" something never heard of before :P) storyline had crossed my mind, even if only briefly.

To be honest, I find particularily challenging trying to lay in a story about an "Alien Invasion", that does *not* come across as either "lame", "oh, so sixties" or just "with too much cheese/corn/ham" in it... Maybe because this theme has been done and redone to death in a whole variety of media, that is generally difficult to come up with anything "new and crisp" about it. Considering I was quite tired when I first thought about this, and since I was going nowhere trying to imagine a "serious" storyline, I kinda went the other way: how about a "non-serious" (a.k.a. complete "tongue-in-cheek") Alien Invasion plot? In short, why not a *PARODY* of the ever-so-frustrating official storyline? (There ! I said it; consequences be damned ! :D)

On your concerns with limitations to customisable content, I've been meaning to ask/look for that information, as right now I have no blooming idea how much of the storyline will/is hard-coded into the game engine. That seems like one valid question: Does anyone know how much (if any at all) of the storyline is going to be built directly into the game engine?

In another line of thought, since I saw some pretty ridiculous numbers being thrown here and there (including the "virus" consuming the ENTIRE Galaxy - except us, the little humans of Earth, of course ;) - in less than 1,000,000 years flat), I think people here are generally confused and don't quite grasp how big the "things" in our Galaxy are, not to mention how *frikkin'* big the Galaxy is in itself ! This should help...

> YouTube: Star Size Comparison HD

EDIT: Whoops !  Got the time span of the XVI conquest wrong; it needed an extra zero -- i.e. a million years, not just as measly one hundred thousands... LOL !! Like it makes any difference !  :D

OK, since I see nobody picked up on this doozie, let me chalk some numbers in, so that everyone can see how preposterous that statement is (N.B. Since we'll be dealing with some pretty big numbers here, I'm going to use the scientific notation -- don't get confused over it):
  • First, the assumptions made (input data): Wikipedia quotes the size of our own 'Milky Way' galaxy as being 100,000 = 1.0e5 light-years across ('diameter'), with an average thickness of about 1,000 = 1.0e3 ly ('height') -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way#Size; also, Winter's current storyline states that the XVI menace consumed the Galaxy in roughly 1,000,000 = 1.0e6 years
  • Next step, the volume our galaxy occupies in space: If I work out those numbers into the formula for the volume of a cylinder (since I'm being given the average thickness I'm allowed to do that), I get pi*D^2/4 * H = (1.0e5)^2 *pi/4 * 1.0e3 = pi/4 * 1.0e13 = 0.7853e13 cub.ly -- Now that's *VERY BIG* !!
  • Last one, the rate of expansion for XVI: This comes out by simply dividing the volume of our galaxy by the total amount of time it took XVI to "munch" its way through it, so that is 0.7853e13 / 1.0e6 = 0.7853e7 . Now keep in mind that those are light-years per year, and is *still* a pretty big number.

It means that our XVI friend is capable of gobbling up a chunk from our Galaxy equivalent in size to a 198+ light-year cube (that's the length of the sides, not the volume -- be careful here !), in just one terrestrial year !! If I am to convert this figure into an equivalent FTL velocity, that would be more than, well, a million times the speed of light !!! For comparison (and as a nod for any Trekkie fans nearby ;) ), that would mean travelling at a constant warp factor well above Warp 9 (using the new, revised Okuda scale -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp_drive_(Star_Trek)#Warp_velocities) for an entire year, whilst also ripping off planets of their resources and populations ! NOW *THAT'S* WHAT I CALL 'FAST FOOD' !! :D
« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 01:49:12 am by NicAdi »

Offline TrashMan

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Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!
« Reply #116 on: July 21, 2010, 10:41:56 am »
I'm thinking of ways to fixing the story issues with as little changes as possible. the path of least resistance.


If you want to go beyond that, there's countless solutions.


Why are the aliens attacking Earth? They are forced to. Or they want to.
If forced, by what or whom? The virus? Some mastermind behind it?
You can turn the virus into a tool of the villain, instead of the "villain". The possibilities are limitless.

Let's say race X was enslaved. Let's say they rebelled and created a virus that made their slavemasters into obedient zombies.Basicly, the XVII makes the target brain extreemly succeptable to psychic suggestion. Or it utterly destroys it, and the infected one is merely a puppet, with no hopes of recovery.

Either way, you got race X, who is paranoid and wants to elimiate all potential threats to it. Or the virus mutated and affected them in other ways, driving race X mad.
Whichever option you choose, you got a good reason as to why the aliens attack earth, and why they are using the virus.
Coupled with an organizational structure and travel technology that prevents them from having their whole armada over earth in 5 minutes, and you get a plausible mini-invasion scenario.

Heck, if race X is crazy, then the invasion being poorly executed even makes sense.

Offline TrashMan

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Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!
« Reply #117 on: July 21, 2010, 10:44:01 am »
About the storyline - everything is text that can be edited. I believe you can change every line of dialogue, every description in the game.
You can effectively change the whole storyline.

Offline NicAdi

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Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!
« Reply #118 on: July 31, 2010, 08:17:06 pm »
I'm thinking of ways to fixing the story issues with as little changes as possible. the path of least resistance.

If you want to go beyond that, there's countless solutions.
I understand that. But since there is absolutely no interest in fixing anything (I'm talking about the current, "official" storyline, of course), why bother coming up with any solutions at all? :)

Why are the aliens attacking Earth? They are forced to. Or they want to.
If forced, by what or whom? The virus? Some mastermind behind it?
You can turn the virus into a tool of the villain, instead of the "villain". The possibilities are limitless.

Let's say race X was enslaved. Let's say they rebelled and created a virus that made their slavemasters into obedient zombies.Basicly, the XVII makes the target brain extreemly succeptable to psychic suggestion. Or it utterly destroys it, and the infected one is merely a puppet, with no hopes of recovery.
I'm sorry, but this is not exactly a "fix" to the current storyline; it is proposing a completely different storyline to root out all discrepancies, and thus it opposes your own "minimal rework" philosophy you stated earlier. It also gives me the impression there may not be a way to correct the current storyline, without significant rework... :(

About the storyline - everything is text that can be edited. I believe you can change every line of dialogue, every description in the game.
You can effectively change the whole storyline.
Pretty much so, but I wasn't referring to *just* the text/article resources. There is also other content (models, AI, mission types, game progression etc. etc.) that might be severely impacted by the storyline. If any such content was built directly into the game engine, then modifying it might become very difficult, at best...
« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 08:20:11 pm by NicAdi »

Offline XCOMTurcocalypse

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Re: CURRENT STORYLINE -- SPOILERS!
« Reply #119 on: December 20, 2010, 04:05:30 pm »
The "galactic power can't crush Earth" thing can be solved by reducing the size of the alien empire.
It doesn't have to engulf whole galaxies to be a threat to Earth.

Furthermore, by spreading the aliens out more, or messing with their mode of travel, communications and such, you can make the invasion buildup far more believable.


All the issues with the storyline can be fixed, given some time and creativity.
But will they?

Yeah. It can be made originating in Alpha Centauri. It would be a fine twist. This time they come to us, as a whole mined-out system wide nomadic alien trailer ship.