Maximum size of maps?

[mlisowsk]

Yesterday, out of curiosity, I tried to make a big map using the radom map generation feature (.ump files).  I tried frozend with size 12*12 or even 9*9 but every time UFO:AI crashed with a "VirtualAlloc Error".
It seems that it's an out of memory issue (I have 512MB).

What is actually the limit in map size?
Why do maps need so much memory?
I think the current maps are really small...

[kaeau]

yes, i agree with the "maps are now to small" thing.
in a farm enviroment, there should be at least some barns and structures, so it is not clear from the beginning, where the aliens are hiding out...

[Skylinux]

So, what is the maximum map size?
What determines the maximum size?
I have been building on a skyscraper map and would like to give the map a realistic size.
The last time I created a map was for my Quake1 clan, the tools sure have not changed

Are the current maps so small for a reason?

[Mattn]

the only reason is, that this is round based - it would take ages to find opponents in those really big maps. and keep in mind, that a skyscraper map is cool, but we only have 8 different (height-)levels

[Skylinux]

the only reason is, that this is round based - it would take ages to find opponents in those really big maps. and keep in mind, that a skyscraper map is cool, but we only have 8 different (height-)levels

I know the 8 level problem won't make it much of a scraper but it would still make a nice office raid. :twisted:

Regarding the large maps, I just don't think the small ones feel right. The harbor map in the campaign for example, harbors are huge. Fences or freight could be placed to block off areas of the map.

[Mattn]

it's also a question about brushpoints - i've never tried a really big map - but   they can be a lot bigger for sure (but higher brushcount results in higher polycount - needs faster computer)

[Zenerka]

In case of urgent need of "more-than-8-levels" maps we can immediately launch second map after first one, and that second could be "next 8 levels". That is no problem.
Also, if necessary, we could probably code the support of "get back to previous 8 levels" if necessary.
I don't know how smart, flexible and usable that would be. But if one wants to make a mission in Eiffel Tower, one needs similar feature.

[Wanderer]

it's also a question about brushpoints - i've never tried a really big map - but   they can be a lot bigger for sure (but higher brushcount results in higher polycount - needs faster computer)

I have, mostly when I was experimenting.  If you make it *very* simplistic, the size doesn't get very bad.  I played around with up to 12x12 tiles without significant issues.  The map also had a very low brush count, as I was experimenting.  Having seen issues with smaller maps and size problems, I'm not so sure it was a valid test anymore, however.

Regarding the large maps, I just don't think the small ones feel right. The harbor map in the campaign for example, harbors are huge. Fences or freight could be placed to block off areas of the map.

How long do you want to play the same map?  I'm guessing at size because it's been a loooong time, but I'd say the 'big farm' maps were about 6x6 tiles on the currently used scheme, and the terror missions were about the size of the 'gas station' map, maybe a bit larger and with more levels, but not more size.

If there's only 5 or 6 aliens in a map, you could spend a looong time playing hide and go seek on a very large map.  As it is I could see the base maps being this large.  At least that should have continuous action as every solider and UGV in the base would be involved and some rediculous volume of aliens.  

(Tangent... Suddenly 'base fights' are all out wars, especially on defense... I don't know what the plan is for that implementation.)

So sure, there could be larger maps.  Yet, maps like 'estate' or 'towers' plays out in a nice time frame, about an hour.  If it was a big broad flat mess, like bridge (which is HUGE, load it) which is 15x12 tiles... sure.  It's still around an hour, maybe a bit longer as I RF sniper the guys up in the far corner and clear the junkyard with my assault team.

I'd say, in general, keep a perspective to playtime vs. # of toys.

[elponeju]

And what's about the possibility to make a map followed by another one??
like in UFO big Bases. With a way to go to the second map?

[Zenerka]

Yes. Currently partialy implemented, IIRC.

[Mattn]

really? who did that? i don't know of such a feature - and it's not that easy - you have to move all your soldiers on some map trigger and then load the new map. we don't even have such a trigger - and it's not clear how aliens should be able to walk from one level to another one

[blondandy]

I think flying things (eg flying armour) might happen eventually

http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Equipment/Armour

though, it is so far off, it is not even on the "(not yet defined) future versions" TODO list.

but still, perhaps it would be wise to bear this in mind when designing maps with blocked-off bits.

I side with the maps-are-already-big-enough faction, BTW.

[Zenerka]

really? who did that? i don't know of such a feature - and it's not that easy - you have to move all your soldiers on some map trigger and then load the new map. we don't even have such a trigger - and it's not clear how aliens should be able to walk from one level to another one

Aliens should not be able to walk from one map to another. The switch from one map to the second one could be done only if all aliens on the current map are killed/stunned. It would be just normal situation except that do not launch victory screen at the end but run the second map (and store relevant stats from the first one into arrays or something). That could be done by additional trigger into a mission definition, i believe.

[Mattn]

ok, that one should be easy - but if a team should also be able to switch the map while there are living aliens left we need the entity i mentioned