suggestion: alien weapon research split

[blondandy]

split research of alien weapons into use and replication.

you would research use of plasma pistols first. phalanx scientists would get confident enough in operation of the gun for soldiers to use them in the field. but, your engineers would not know enough about the gun to make new ones (or ammo). you would have to research replication of plasma pistols first.

this sounds plausible: it maust be much harder to make something than use it.

i think it would create a tactically interesting early campaign phase, where you could only used salvaged alien tech. you would have to be careful with every plasma grenade.

[Winter]

split research of alien weapons into use and replication.

you would research use of plasma pistols first. phalanx scientists would get confident enough in operation of the gun for soldiers to use them in the field. but, your engineers would not know enough about the gun to make new ones (or ammo). you would have to research replication of plasma pistols first.

this sounds plausible: it maust be much harder to make something than use it.

i think it would create a tactically interesting early campaign phase, where you could only used salvaged alien tech. you would have to be careful with every plasma grenade.

No thank you. It would pad out the research tree unnecessarily and make research pretty infuriating. Having to do two topics on the same thing when only one is needed, plus the effort of splitting all those already-written articles into two, for an idea that I don't think would help gameplay or fun at all . . . I'm sorry, but I don't see that as a positive thing.

Regards,
Winter

[jbabcock]

split research of alien weapons into use and replication.

you would research use of plasma pistols first. phalanx scientists would get confident enough in operation of the gun for soldiers to use them in the field. but, your engineers would not know enough about the gun to make new ones (or ammo). you would have to research replication of plasma pistols first.

this sounds plausible: it maust be much harder to make something than use it.

i think it would create a tactically interesting early campaign phase, where you could only used salvaged alien tech. you would have to be careful with every plasma grenade.

I can't remember if it is this way in UFO:AI, but in previous games you could not *reload* until both the ammo and weapon were researched. Perhaps the same restriction could be placed on manufacturing. There would be a short period when a player could use the weapon but not be able to reload or produce new copies.

Or perhaps a simple time limit, say however long it took to research the weapon, before the workshop gives you the option of manufacturing. Call it a retooling interval.

I do like the idea of being able to use the weapon without mastering all of its secrets.

[blondandy]

Winter,

I understand that we cannot be a democracy, someone must have editorial oversight (and I think you do an excellent job). if you would humour me for a bit longer, i will respond to some of your points.

It would pad out the research tree unnecessarily

i dont know. i quite like the early campaign excitement - will you have learnt how to use the next alien tech in time for the nex hard mission?

research pretty infuriating

at the moment it is a bit fiddly - having to assign one scientist at a time (instead of, say, ten). i am sure the devs will have the gui tweaked eventualy.

when only one is needed

i stand by my "it must be much harder to make something than use it" point.

effort of splitting all those already-written articles into two

i would be quite happy to draft the changes (for your final approval). indeed even if you do not decide to take on this idea, if you are finding the task onerous, i would be happy to help. (email my sf.net account)

I don't think would help gameplay

i think the early conservative use of tech would be tactically interesting. indeed, i think the story style is good - indomitable humans struggling with salvage against alien aggression.

anyhow, if you are still not persuaded, i will happily drop the point.
 

regards,

andy

[ShinobiTeNo]

I have an alternative to your alternative. It should be easy to code:
just set a precentage for every unknown item towards the total research time, at when you can use the item.

Abstract example:
Alien granade:
100 human hours to reseach.
20% usability barrier - after 20 human hours, the granade can be used.

Of course in the case of aborting th research, we could drop the current status, or save it.

Nice, clean, simple.  

[BTAxis]

That wouldn't be in the spirit of the UFO genre of game. Besides, I feel it would make the game too "easy" in the sense that when you do it like that, you'd only research an item to the usability barrier, then research the next one, etc, until you had nothing else to do with your scientists, only THEN would you research the rest of it. I prefer it the way it is.

[ShinobiTeNo]

That wouldn't be in the spirit of the UFO genre of game. Besides, I feel it would make the game too "easy" in the sense that when you do it like that, you'd only research an item to the usability barrier, then research the next one, etc, until you had nothing else to do with your scientists, only THEN would you research the rest of it. I prefer it the way it is.

I played thru almost 10 times of both X-COM1&2, as well as UFO: Aftermath, but I WOULD indeed like this feature implemented. Besides, to USE doesn't mean to KNOW as in the case you depicted, the player wont be able to research advanced or synthetic technology.
I am for it, but i think this is an opportunity feature.

[Winter]

I played thru almost 10 times of both X-COM1&2, as well as UFO: Aftermath, but I WOULD indeed like this feature implemented. Besides, to USE doesn't mean to KNOW as in the case you depicted, the player wont be able to research advanced or synthetic technology.
I am for it, but i think this is an opportunity feature.

Besides being against the spirit of the games, it's unrealistic and rather pointless. No military organisation, even a desperate one, would attempt to use an extraterrestrial weapon in combat unless they knew absolutely everything about it and what it could do. Anything else would be utter stupidity -- a soldier accidentally triggering some hidden 'feature' in the weapon could end up wiping out his entire team.

Any extraterrestrial combat unit worth its salt will hold off until the entire weapon is declared safe and all its troops are properly trained in its use through simulations and mock weapons.

Regards,
Winter

[Wanderer]

Besides being against the spirit of the games, it's unrealistic and rather pointless. No military organisation, even a desperate one, would attempt to use an extraterrestrial weapon in combat unless they knew absolutely everything about it and what it could do. Anything else would be utter stupidity -- a soldier accidentally triggering some hidden 'feature' in the weapon could end up wiping out his entire team.

Winter, why have you put in my head the scene of the 'Red Button' on the guns in 'The Fifth Element' where the mercs blow themselves to pieces?

[Winter]

Winter, why have you put in my head the scene of the 'Red Button' on the guns in 'The Fifth Element' where the mercs blow themselves to pieces?

Because that's exactly what I was thinking about when I wrote it?

Regards,
Winter

[PandaKnight]

Besides being against the spirit of the games, it's unrealistic and rather pointless. No military organisation, even a desperate one, would attempt to use an extraterrestrial weapon in combat unless they knew absolutely everything about it and what it could do. Anything else would be utter stupidity -- a soldier accidentally triggering some hidden 'feature' in the weapon could end up wiping out his entire team.

Any extraterrestrial combat unit worth its salt will hold off until the entire weapon is declared safe and all its troops are properly trained in its use through simulations and mock weapons.

Regards,
Winter

This is a point I definitely agree on - the scientists would not assert that they it is safe (and that the know everything that could happen) until they could build a perfect copy of it.