General > Discussion

The SMG... godsend or overpowered?

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Wanderer:
I've been goofing around with just using Secondary weapons in hard mode.

Now, the pistols kinda stink, but that's okay, they should.  However, has anyone else noticed that an SMG on full auto can rock an alien that you could Inferno with the flamethrower and he laughs at you?

The aim's not bad... certainly no worse then the sniper at short range... and my snipers at 90% crouched can't hit something a screen or two over usually anyway.  It's light, the ammo packs easily, and you can run around with a few grenades for those 'round the corner' shots. RF on it seems pretty regular, as well, and it's a burst fire.

So, my team:
- My guy with the riot shotgun can pepper a target with sabot rounds and hopefully knock down something at range in 2 salvos.
- My assault rifle fires all over the place and can usually take something out, but has decent range but not much better then the SMG.
- The grenade launcher occassionally does stupid levels of damage, especially around corners or if the enemy's grouped.  I'm just as likely to bounce the grenades off the map or smack them off an invisible beam and blow my own team up occassionally.
- The flamethrower requires me to leave a guy's butt hanging out in the wind due to range unless he cremates everything around.  They're great for hitting multiple aliens all lined up in a row... which happens... never?
- My snipers are burning off TU's for halfhearted shots at long range because they can't do crap in close.  Once the alien's turn starts, they're burgermeat.  Only highly useful, at best, on 1/4 maps.  Especially when the Alien's Particle Rifle has better aim then my trained soldier with a scope.
- The SMG chews up aliens like they were jokes at short-medium range, and fires so many rounds you could hand it to a blind baby in a stroller and hit something.

I haven't gotten them into the Medium armor aliens yet, but so far, they seem like the primier weapon of choice for enemy obliteration, especially in early game.

Thoughts?

Kaerius:
Personally, I prefer both the grenade launchers and sniper rifles...

You just gotta make sure you give the sniper rifles to people who have both decent accuracy, and decent sniper skill. I tend to pair them up and turn them into reaction fire deathsquads.

Grenade launchers are a veritable swiss army firearm. The first thing I do in a new game is build some flechette rounds for them. That way I can either use them for splash damage mayhem, or turn them into smg-like weapons. A tripple shot flechette is basically a guaranteed kill at short-mid range, for 14 TUs(less than smg full auto.) And the single shot is more potent than the smg burst mode for 8 TU instead of 9.

Occasionally I also use the rocket launchers in the beginning(not enough snipers/grenade launchers.) They're quite effective.

My first 3 researches go into making heavy laser and ammo for it though, since it's the best weapon in the game, no questions asked.

Pariah:
While I don't think I have used the SMG, except for maybe once, I have used the 7.62mm Pistol, the Machine Pistol and the Micro Shotgun. The 7.62mm will get you killed using it, so the first thing I do is sell all of those. The Micro Shotgun actually works early on, but once they show up in armor, move on. The Machine Pistol is the one that surprised me, because if the first burst didn't drop them, then the second normally would, and if it took a third burst, I normally had enough AP's for a 3rd. Where all of these weapons fail is in reactionary fire.

Kaerius is right though, the Heavy Laser is a priority to research, because I find that weapon over powering. It is one weapon that mid to late game that will kill an alien with reactionary fire, more often then not.

I am thinknig that maybe the research tree needs to be tweaked so that, like in Xcom, you have to research the laser pistol and the laser rifle before you can get the heavy laser.

Here is a question I will ask because I don't remember reading it elsewhere. Regarding dual pistols, the UFOPaedia states that the laser pistols would be ideal for someone to wield two of them. Has that been implimented into the game? Will it?

Thanks all,

Albert - Pariah - eastwoodaen

breversa:

--- Quote from: "Pariah" ---Here is a question I will ask because I don't remember reading it elsewhere. Regarding dual pistols, the UFOPaedia states that the laser pistols would be ideal for someone to wield two of them. Has that been implimented into the game? Will it?
--- End quote ---


Well, if you wanna keep UFO:AI a bit realistic (sci-fi does NOT mean physics don't apply any longer !), I hope this feature never makes it in this game (or any other realistic on), for one reason : the way AIMING works for a human being.

As I was taught in the army, and as I teach new recruits, aiming is lining THREE items : your (director) eye, your weapon sighting system and your target...

So if you're wielding TWO weapons, how could you possibly aim them  at the same time ? Unless you have TWO director and independant eyes (like a chameleon), it's just impossible for a human...

And don't tell me about unaimed shooting : if you don't plan to aim, don't plan to shoot, unless you plan on missing. ;)

Winter:

--- Quote from: "breversa" ---Well, if you wanna keep UFO:AI a bit realistic (sci-fi does NOT mean physics don't apply any longer !), I hope this feature never makes it in this game (or any other realistic on), for one reason : the way AIMING works for a human being.

As I was taught in the army, and as I teach new recruits, aiming is lining THREE items : your (director) eye, your weapon sighting system and your target...

So if you're wielding TWO weapons, how could you possibly aim them  at the same time ? Unless you have TWO director and independant eyes (like a chameleon), it's just impossible for a human...

And don't tell me about unaimed shooting : if you don't plan to aim, don't plan to shoot, unless you plan on missing. ;)
--- End quote ---


I'm with you on that, but most FPS-monkeys and such people will whine and demand if there is no dual-wielding feature. To me, an ideal solution would be to include it, but treat it with complete realism -- to make dual-wielded pistols suck as much as they do in real life. :P

Regards,
Winter

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