General > Discussion
regarding gatling/minigun
Nevasith:
--- Quote ---LOL. With 3000 bullets (compared to 200 in heavy MG's) and a selectable RoF it's the best weapon for the job. Set it low and start spraying. No need to reload for quite a while - constant supressive fire.
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First you need to place it somewhere. You dont expect any of your man to stand on a hill and start to spray, do you?
Connecting gatling gun to a powered armor would need a strong connection- not just an arm to hold it- how would you put such a thing through the window, and what if the window is to high? How do you put such a weapon on a ground to hide? Wont even mention that a rotating barrels would need sort of frame to protect them from hitting the ground or a wall/whatever. You wont have much use of "supresive fire" do you have if it takes a poor sniper 5 seconds to take down your gunman as he cant find a cover?
Also why use 3000 bullets when 200 is enough? Its like killing a mosquito with a canon
--- Quote ---It doesn't have to be either of those things. Does the rocket launcher have the accuracy of a sniper rifle? What about ammo issues for it? Does the sniper rifle have the same kick as a rocket launcher? Does it have the same RoF as a machinegun?
Oh, and a gat gun could very well have the "staying power"
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Actually RL works for many as a more powerful sniper rifle
one hit kill doesnt need much ammo
well sniper rifle should also be one hit kill, but would damage game balance i guess.
dont you think, that if using gatling gun as an infrantry support weapon would make any sense it would be used? its just too much trouble to use it. Dont forget about the rotating engine and its power source.
--- Quote ---So does a rocket launcher..or a heavy machinegun. Here's a tip - watch where you're aiming it at.
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never cared much about civilians- if they dont know its better to hide during a battle- let them die. To be honest- normally RL are used to destroy vehicles and tanks- sometimes buildings. In UFO many people use RL sice they are effective but i hope in future versions RL would simply miss living creatures as their homing system wouldnt treat them as target.
--- Quote ---Eh? Modern gattling cannons are quite reliable. They also use linkless ammo that has a excellent record of non-jamming.
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Im more concerned about rotating engine and barells itself- if some dust gets to it...
--- Quote ---Not really. The microgun system is quite compact, so it doesn't take a lot of room.
Long time to fire? Only if you could setting it up on a pod to fire, but that wouldn't be necessary with power armor. Unless you're reffering to spin up time, but I already mentioned 2 very real ways to solve that problem.
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If i recall you mentioned a constantly rotating the barrels. Good idea- it was in Unreal Tournament i think, that you could make a minigun rotate constantly. The drawback is noise- you will notify every alien in 50m radius of your presence and weapon, while you should try to take them by surprise and kill before they realise what hit them.
--- Quote ---Now, I'm curious as to why you're so zealously attacking the concept of a minigun, while at the same time you have all sorts of crazy alien tech. Are plasma cannons or particle cannons or antimatter drives or FTL travel possible? Can you explain how they work DOWN TO THE SMALLEST DETAIL? No? Then why do you have them in the game?
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They dont need details- aliens are supoused to use strange and futuristic weapons-
Also Plasma rifle is just a strange assault rifle. Particle is like a sniper- but more dangerous.
And it makes sense. But it doesnt make any sense to give infantry weapons meant for machines like aircraft. Its like giving a soldier a 85mm tank canon, or a 8 barreled rocket pod. It has different uses.
For Xcom troopers the mobility is crucial. That is why they have machine gun which can be operated in various conditions- snow, frost, dust, sand, mud, etc.
At the moment you are the one attacking. We just tell you about logical problems with miniguns- . They look cool but that is all.
Falion:
Mattn, Winter, or BT is this similar to the current Machine gun in the game?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M249
Winter:
--- Quote from: Falion on June 14, 2008, 01:54:59 am ---Mattn, Winter, or BT is this similar to the current Machine gun in the game?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M249
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Of course it is. Any light machine gun is similar to our machine gun, they're the same class of weapons, though a few years apart.
Regards,
Winter
Falion:
I was thinking so, but thanks for the clarification :)
TrashMan:
--- Quote from: Winter on June 14, 2008, 01:39:02 am ---I have, you just haven't been arguing very well. You still haven't provided any concrete figures with which we could verify or kill your concept.
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What? D I have to do all the work here.. I mentioned articles and weapons and technologies. Geez, use google search, you can find articles that will back up my claims.
--- Quote ---So it weighs as much as a machine gun that takes at least two people to carry and which cannot be fired from anything except a vehicle or a tripod, and that'll be just fine for one ordinary soldier?
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If you got power armor it can be carried by one.
Note that the microgun CAN be carried and operated by one person.
38 kg - that is total weight of the whole system, gattling gun + backpack with 1000 round.
I expect that by 2080 you can get that down to 30, if not more.
--- Quote ---Solved how? Do you know how much bullets actually weigh and how much space they take up?
The most likely candidate for your future minigun, the 4.73mmx33mm caseless round, has a mass of 3.25 grams per round. At 3000 rounds, that's still nearly 10kg for just the ammo, and you can't reduce weight any further and still have a round with enough mass and penetration to kill.
Also, the volume, which I don't have the time to work out right now, would be prohibitive.
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A caseless round is roughly 1/3 the volume of a normal one. So you could fit 3 times more bullets in the same ammo pack used in the microgun. 10 kg isn't much, b.t.w.
--- Quote ---How does armour provide a stable platform? It still wouldn't offer anything to lean against and the shooter would simply topple over backwards from the recoil.
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Easy, power armor can dig itself into place - lock legs in a wide stance for stabiltiy, increase support for the spine and soft swivel movement for the hip.
And like I said, there are way to reduce recoil to some extent. The two things combines should be more then enough.
--- Quote ---I asked you to prove anything of what you said, you have yet to do so.
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If you ever bothered to check upon what I said, you'd notice that every technology I mentioned has alleardy been implemented somewhere or is being implemented.
--- Quote ---Not exactly constant. More like a few minutes at most, at which point you have a very expensive paperweight and the enemy will come out and kill you since you can't reload.
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Are you telling me you can shoot for minutes with other weapons without running out of ammo at some point? And who said you can't reload a minigun? You just need another agent who will carry another backpack,..and, you know...sidearms?
--- Quote ---Your minigun, however, is outclassed in everything you say it does by other, more useful weapons.
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Really? Name another weapon that can put that much led in the air? well....I'm waiting.
--- Quote ---Stupid comment, you yourself made the argument of the minigun easily tearing through walls. Can you see through walls?
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that wasn't me.. Shows how much attention you're paying :P
--- Quote ---Anything with so many barrels and moving parts is going to jam far more frequently than an ordinary gun, and takes a major undertaking to unjam. The current ideal time for unjamming a minigun is 5 minutes.
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Dunno where you got that figure...Even assuming it's true we're talikng about 5 minutes of constant fire, right? You should be trough all 3000 rounds by then.
--- Quote ---What the hell? How do you arrive at that? A missile launcher can be reloaded by slotting another rocket into the breech and bringing it back to your shoulder. A minigun would require bringing in a whole new backpack of ammo from somewhere and then linking it up to the gun. The two are not even remotely comparable.
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It takes a bit longer, but not that long. How difficult you think it is to attach a new chain?
--- Quote ---Another straw-man argument. The two are not comparable. A concept we already KNOW to be completely unrealistic and unworkable at any time in the present or future, and for which we have incontrovertible data to that effect, versus advanced alien technology based on concepts that modern science doesn't fully understand. You might as well be asking why we've got humans fighting the aliens rather than magical people from Tir Na Nog fighting the aliens.
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unrealistic? :ounworkable? incontrovertible data? :D
Where do you get this stuff?
Are we even living in the same universe?
What's next? You're gonna tell me the moon is made of cheese?
Lol...sorry if this sounds nasty, but I don't know weather I should laugh or cry.
Gattling cannons are one of my many points of interest, so I studied them a bit. I also aced physics classes and I has a project director from CERN as my teacher. We covered antimatter, quantum physics, nanotechnology...he even invited experts from the field, guy working in the labs to show us some stuff. Some of the prototpye tech is so far out there...Here's a tip - watch out for nanotech. It's the next big thing!
Erm..where was I? Oh yea - so don't think me some raving fool who doesn't know what the hell he's taking about. I guess we have a different view about a subject, but I'll be damn if I agree with you on that, when everything I know tells me otherwise.
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