General > Discussion

regarding gatling/minigun

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DanielOR:
IT LIVES!  It has rizen AGAIN!

aaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

TrashMan:

--- Quote from: Aiki-Knight on June 12, 2008, 06:00:44 am ---He doesn't simply hate the gatling gun. He's got good reasons. A gatling gun doesn't fit with the other early-game weapons. It's not a stupid idea; it just doesn't fit with the thrust of the game. XCOM games did have a gun that looked like a gatling, but of course you remember that its fire rate was similar to other firearms. I for one appreciate the realism of the current weapons load-out. Who knows what they'll have in 2084? But I like the contemporary basics of the early game. Why is everyone so fixated on having a man-portable rotary cannon? Did Jesse Ventura in "Predator" leave such a lasting imprint? I for one thought it was one of dumbest parts of the movie. Fun. But dumb, you know?
--- End quote ---

Who said anything about it being a early-game weapon?
Oh, UFO had gattling guns..the real deal.
All the reasons I've heard so far are purely subjective...nothing that really holds water.


--- Quote ---*SNIP*
--- End quote ---

You fall in the same logical hole as before - you treat it as a assualt rifle instead of a specialized weapon. I ask you now to apply all these arguments to a large missile launcher. According to these arguments, such a launcher is the stupidest thing ever...yet it's there. There are even missile launchers or weapon systems that require two people to man properly! Oh noes - you can't run with it or storm room with it! ::) Obviously, the military is sooo stupid to have these, right?

So, let's not forget the following:
1. game is set in the future
2. human have alien tech
3. humans have power armor

All things considered, a gattling canon is PERFECLY workable.
Power armor solves the issues of mobility and stabiltiy, while modern tech can solve the issue of weight and ammo. In fact, I'd be surprised if by 2084 you couldn't build a gattling cannon that's perfecly man portable. Don't forget, we had one for 20 years allready - all it needs is to be further refined and improved, as all weapons do.

Nevasith:
We never get to an agreement as people who want MG will not give up and those who doesnt want it will not either.
Now lets thing about the potential use of minigun

Only idea i got for tactical missions is to use it to lock some area with heavy fire. How would you do it?
Well the only way is to get a good spot for it- easy to defend and with good sight over the area. Maybe a rooftop- or a hill?
How to get there? You need to walk there- often assign someone with short range weapon to protect the MG gunner and clear the way.
The point is, that by that time a sniper would get there much earlier and would already kill anything he can aim. On tactical missions speed is crucial- you need to get onto position before the enemy does.  And you REALLY dont need 10k rounds per minute in tactical missions. An ordinary light support gun- single barrelled medium speed and weight weapon- something with you can fall into the dust while being shoot at and than shoot back, or you can easily fetch up the stairs and take position. That will be much more useful . You are mostly fighting in the urban area! You cant just shoot around and raze the city yourself!
Aditional problem with MG is its mechanical construction- the more movable parts the bigger risk of failure. Minigun needs a good working environment to work properly- special point to place it, special handling and even than you cant be sure if a sudden wind blow wont push some dust into a rotating mechanism and lock the gun
As for the rocket launcher- it is useless at the moment until tank-like vehicles are introduced. I hope there will be a grenade alternative for rockets even then. Whatever happens the Rockets should have really high accuracy as almost every missile now has some guiding system and its relatively easy to hit a tank from quite afar

Surrealistik:

--- Quote from: Nevasith ---As for the rocket launcher- it is useless at the moment until tank-like vehicles are introduced.
--- End quote ---

The rocket launcher is by no means useless. It's effectively an ultrapowerful AoE sniper rifle, and indispensible early game on the hardest difficulty. A situational weapon certainly, but useful nonetheless just like a minigun would be (unparalleled crowd control, superb versus heavily armoured targets).

Anyways, I pretty much agree with Trash-Man. There is no compelling logical reason to necessarily bar a minigun, and arguments so far offered against it have been nothing but sophistry, or baseless kneejerk antipathy.

TrashMan:
@Nevasith:

Actually, I'm discussing this cause I like to discuss such thing, but more importantly, because when I know something is right or wrong and I hear people say otherwise, I get a naggin' impulse to correct them...epsecially if it's about something I like or have a interest in.

Speaking of which - I used  the rocket launcher quite a bit.. Far from useless. Rather accurate and packs one hell of a punch.

A minigun would be used in specific circumstances - in places where you get  a good overview and where you need firepower - like base defense. You can defend the whole corridor from multiple opponents with a minigun.

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